Curse

m0nkey · May 05, 2006, 07:07 AM // 07:07

Ok I have played guildwar for about a year now, and now fraction's comes along and I agree with fixing the skills to kill spaming of spirits but to go as far as to make it so when your in a group only one ritualist can use there skills for spirits. HUH no, point being its like being disarmed in combat. I was in a game, monster are attacking my spirits and look at this the other ritualist was using the same skills there for good bye to my spirits and me and this guy where like what the hell fixing it so you cant spam is one thing but fixing it so only one can cast haha that blows. I feel the ritualist should be able to cast there own spirits keep it so there is no spamming yes but make it so keep the set up on times but fix it so they dont conflict with other ritualist they should be able to use there own skills and not conflict with the other ritualist casting spirits. Who else feels the same way and who are the people who think there elite just to shoot down this post.

NooB, NewB, Just a kind of word to make a new guy feel wanted in the game if you use it you must be that guy feel love do ya. Peace!

Mercury Angel · May 05, 2006, 08:34 AM // 08:34

As unfortunate as it is for players to be in places such as the random arenas with another ritualist using the same spirits, the primary reason I'd imagine they don't allow even different ritualists to have their own copy of each spirit is that end result would be what we saw with Glyph of Renewal + Anguished was Lingwah;

An unstoppable army of spirits that wipes out anything and everything in its path.

Teams of 8 ritualists could have 8 copies of each spirit, dealing up to 21 damage per hit. 64 spirits attacking foes is no joke. They crumple like a piece of toilet paper trying to catch a bowling ball falling from a 20 story building.

Even 6 spirits a piece isn't something you can shirk off, or all ritualist secondaries. (Ranger/Rit for Expertise)

Dr Strangelove · May 05, 2006, 08:40 AM // 08:40

I'm not entirely sure what you're trying to say, punctuation is your best friend when writing posts. Is there a limit to the number of spirits you can have? I hadn't noticed this, but it's a good fix to the spirit of pain army.

m0nkey · May 05, 2006, 03:58 PM // 15:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dr Strangelove

I'm not entirely sure what you're trying to say, punctuation is your best friend when writing posts. Is there a limit to the number of spirits you can have? I hadn't noticed this, but it's a good fix to the spirit of pain army.

Making it so you cant party with any other ritualist is a bunch of crap. And is a bunch of B/S and something needs to be done about it, take this the damn necro gets its own little monsters of there own right. and your saying the ritualist cant that is a bunch of crap everyone else is independent why cant the ritualist it is B/S if you ask me. Just becouse some fool wants to post call there self elite wich makes me laugh so hard. if they cant handle everything in the game then there not elite are they if you cant handle spirits. Not to mention in my book pets should not be aloud in arena's. thats just how I see it. I cant go on for hours about every little detail that is messed up in this game but no im stuck on one thing and one thing only. And as for the quote above if you want to say crap about punctuation ask me if I care I dont not one damn bit.

Dr Strangelove · May 05, 2006, 04:40 PM // 16:40

Making it so you cant party with any other ritualist is a bunch of crap and is a bunch of BS, something should be done about it. Take the necro, for example. They get to have their own minions, why can't a ritualist? Everyone else is independent, why not the ritualist? BS crap crap BS go red engine. You're not elite if you can't handle being simulataneously hit by 60+ spirits. Pets are out of order! This whole games out of order! I like to rant. I failed english class.

Here, I translated that into english for ya.

Epinephrine · May 05, 2006, 04:52 PM // 16:52

Despite his inability to string a sentence together, there is something to the criticism.

As it is multiple ritualists are more limited in their action than any other class/build.

Multiple Warriors, Elementalists, Rangers, Assassins, Monks and to a great extent Necros and Mesmers pretty much add up in effectiveness. 2 warriors is twice as much damage as 1, and 3 warriors is 3 times as much.

Hex users need to coordinate hexes to some extent, but multiple hexers can have the same hex and apply it to different targets, as a partial solution.

Nothing is as limited as the ritualist -
The spirits can only have one copy existent in your group? That makes coordinating vital, and means that the damage output is only ever one spirit worth (of a type) - which you can't direct, can't focus fire with, and is pretty vulnerable.

Worse yet, the weapon spells can only have one weapon spell active ata time - I know this is needed for spiking, as otherwise you could prep a bunch of folks and spike insanely, but it makes them next to useless on defense, and multiple ritualists can operate well together - I see a guy under pressure, so I cas a Weapon of Shadow to blind his atatckers, and someone else does a Weapon of Warding at about the same time - poof, wasted spell - and that's with the spell selection coordinated - we aren't trying to each cast Guardian on him, it's different effects.

Ritualists sum the worst of any of the classes. The effects are poorly balanced and are not made to work together well.

Trin Storm · May 05, 2006, 05:01 PM // 17:01

Multiple rangers have the same problems - Only one Winds and Winnowing can be active on those tombs runs (and anywhere else). You talk and agree ahead of time as to who brings what.

Thats why if you have two Rits - a simple run down of spirits before setting out solves your problem. I do this as soon as I see a second Rit enter the party. Heck its actually better because in the time you lay down 3 spirits - your party can have 6 different ones running. Recoup, Life, Shelter, Pain, Shadow and Dissonance all up at once makes any fight better.

Even Multiple necros do with who gets to use the coprse for what. Yes they have their own minons but they are limited by the corpses - you both can't make one off the same body. You give weapons examples - other classes face this as well - how many times have you seen two people try to interupt the same skill? It happens, As a Rit - I don't feel either is affecting my play any more than it does with the other classes

Mercury Angel · May 05, 2006, 06:43 PM // 18:43

At no point in time did I ever call myself elite. I disagreed with you and provided my reasoning.

I'm not saying that ritualist don't need tweaking... But really, you can't ignore the effects of having so many spirits on the battlefield would mean. What that means is that I don't agree with -this- particular suggestion.

Necromancers aren't much of a problem because they require corpses to generate their armies. And when they have them, their armies deteriorate without allowing them to remake them. What dies is dead until they can get fresh corpses.

The method of circumventing that, having a saccer and rezmer, is partially obsolete. You can no longer build a massive army before the battle even begins; You're stuck at 10 per minion master.

Now, if you want to get more picky - Necromancers DO interfere with one another. You can only exploit each corpse once. If you have a necromancer spreading wells, and using Putrid Explosion, and what-not, the Minion Master is going to be a bit upset, due to their corpse spells taking longer to cast, and often failing entirely due to the corpses being used up.

Back to why this suggestion is not a good idea;

48 offensive spirits (6 per character). We'll say half hit for 21, and half hit for 13.
24 spirits contribute a combined 504 damage each time they attack.
The other 24 spirits contribute a combined 312 damage each time they attack.

They also provide nice effects such as removing enchantments, interrupting their foes, knocking them down, blinding them, and such. They can be set before their targets come into range, so they're fundamentally uninterruptible, particularly because you have 8 ritualists anyway.

A target comes into range attempting to tank them, using a 75% block stance. They die in a little over 3 seconds. Attempts to enchant them to further increase their survivability are stripped. Attempts to use any self healing skills are interrupted. Armor buffs mean nothing, as the spirits damage ignores armor.

And if they rely on something other than a stance to defend themselves? The moment a Disenchantment spirit strikes them, it's gone.

Anguished was Lingwah and Pain showed us just how nasty this could be. One second was all it took to kill an undefended foe, with a long stream of 21's. And redefining the metagame to require everyone to have defensive stances, or teams to use only rangers to be able to attack from outside of the spirit's range is not a good idea.

Edit: Upon further testing, apparently, spirit's attack range extends to about longbow range. So yeah, I definitely don't support this particular change. x_x

Edit: Yay for fuzzy math.
There're only 5 offensive spirits that attack. Pain, Bloodsong, Shadowsong deal 21 damage per strike at 16 communing. Dissonance and Disenchantment deal 15. The damage is marginally less than the predicted values, but it does leave slots for the player to contribute damage on their own. Wanderlust, as it turns out, deals none. At least, to stationary foes. I'm not sure if it hurts moving foes or not at all.

But the spirits have an insane range, and they're still painful to encounter. Allowing a team to run 40 of them attacking targets is still a menace.

m0nkey · May 06, 2006, 06:04 AM // 06:04

Nice to know people shoot down what people say. Not to mention turn into idiot's that think they know everything. If a necro can have 10 minion's each why cant a ritualist have there own to. Its not my fault that everyone else can post stuff and get some stupid stuff done couse they cry about it.
No Im just pissed the hell off about it, and as for the ranger we are not talking about them, this is about the ritualist read the post not about any other class. You wana be rude idiot thats ok trust me, and no life due to all the post I see most of you put trashing what people say to make you feel all big. Wow Im impressed really no not really the ritualist should be able to cast there own spirits.
Spells should stay the same about killing of spirits around for life or what not, I am not trying to be rude to anyone like I have seen from all of you. And ass for there damage lol two of the spirits do 20 damage max the other 2 that couse damage do 15 damage max. So what ever thats not much damage at all, and with the casting time on them that I like everything else is good. Just not how they cant cast there own spirit, so what ever you say thats all good there are other people that feel the same way even though you do not so whatever

Falcon213 · May 06, 2006, 09:55 AM // 09:55

20 dmg every 1.5 sec? that's about equal damage as a sword war without speed buffs or +dmg skills. And that's pretty powerful considering that it's only a created spirit.

Isileth · May 06, 2006, 10:23 AM // 10:23

Yeah you cant say spirits arent powerful. The dmg they did before was insane! Its not only dmg you could have a constant 10 regen on you and practically never be hit if everyone could keep them up.
If you where to let rangers stack spirits you could have FW up on each ranger making arrows hit targets instantly and with a stupid ammount of power. With Rit its worse because they have more spirits, more dmg, more healing. It just wouldnt work letting everyone have their own spirit. I agree however that as it stands it makes it very difficult. Unless some way of balancing can be arranged you will need to adapt. If you are with other Rits ask what spirits they use and change to a different setup.

Song Rui · May 06, 2006, 10:42 AM // 10:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by m0nkey

Ok I have played guildwar for about a year now, and now fraction's

I lol'd.

Shen Xi · May 06, 2006, 01:15 PM // 13:15

I might have more sympathy for the op if i didn't have to really concentrate to try and decipher what the hell he's saying. That and it's blatently obvious he's some young kid who feels victimised and hard done by.

TGgold · May 06, 2006, 08:06 PM // 20:06

Oh no, now teams with multiple Ritualists need to coordinate!
Whenever there's another rit on the team, I just ask what they're using. And then the problem is solved. Normally I go weapon spells and Restoration, and the other Ritualist goes using with spirits, and if there's a third, then they can use Channeling or another build of their choice. I mean...it's not like it's hard to be flexible.

Also, multiple MMs never works, because there tend not to be enough corpses for two people runnign full corpse exploitation skillbars.
Also, MMs are limited to 10 minions now, while you're limited to technically 8 spirits. Spirits are extremely powerful due to their damage and additional effects.

Also, the RANGER is EXTREMELY relevant to this, considering you're complaining about spirit mechanics, and rangers *gasp* also use spirits.

FURTHERMORE....you can always call what spirit your using to avoid overlap. I mean...learn proper game mechanics, and THEN complain.

Mercury Angel · May 06, 2006, 08:12 PM // 20:12

Thread closed due to the OP's lack of understanding of how forums work.

People post up their ideas, people discuss their ideas. People agree and DISAGREE with their ideas.
The latter is the whole point of having something open for discussion.

Also, we DO have rules about not butchering the English language excessively in the forum guidelines. Please check it out.

As a note, this thread may be reposted, but if it's made again in the same vein as this one, it'll be simply deleted. That is to say, posting a new thread about this subject is fine. The administration is not the 'thought police'.

But posting it in a clear bias, refusing to take any kind of criticism, and blatantly attacking anyone that disagrees with you is NEVER OK. And unfortunately, that sometimes leads to valid threads being killed.